Fugitivus Discussion Forum

Trigger warning: general discussion of rape, lots of angry cursing

So, I am in medical school. I was in the call room (where the residents and students hang out when they're not actively doctoring), and somehow the topic of rape came up. There is a douchenozzle of a doctor who I already have a problem with because he is such an arrogant misogynist who had some really choice things to say about rape. I really held my tongue as much as I could (I will be spending a year at this site, and he is one of my supervisors. Plus, there is that whole terrible bargain thing that Melissa talks about at Shakesville.), but I did argue with him a little and I am so sure he (and many of the others in the room) see me as the humorless feminazi now.

So, some of his astute (not) observations:

He came in saying he had heard some statistic about 25% of college women being raped. He was astounded by this number, and scoffing that it could not POSSIBLY be accurate. He announced, incredulously, "That means at least one of YOU has been raped!" to the four women in the room.

My silent response: Yeah, douchebag? Why does that make it impossible? Most likely, you are surrounded by sexual assault survivors every single fucking day! Do you think sexual assault survivors wear a fucking badge to identify themselves, or will break into sobs randomly and spill their histories to you?

My actual response: Well, it was probably all kinds of sexual assault, which is a wider umbrella. And, having sex with someone who is intoxicated is considered sexual assault, since they cannot truly give consent when they are intoxicated, and that is fairly common in college. Also, I have heard that 20% or so of women are sexual assault victims, so that is not that far off from what I have heard.

His response: Well, regret the next day isn't the same thing as being raped. And, I have had sex a few times when I was so drunk that I was almost passed out! I guess I've been raped! Har de har har! I've been raped a few times! Har de har har!

Me: (OK, I apologize for this one up front, because it isn't fair to paint homosexual sex as the most awful thing that could happen, but this guy was seriously pissing me off, and I know he is a homophobic asshole, and this would really drive the point home) Were any of those times sex with a man against your will?

Him, suddenly serious: Um, no.

Me: OK, well, then, you may not have thought it was so funny. It's not really a funny subject.

Him: Tells a story about some dude he knew whose life was RUINED by a totally! false!11!! rape accusation by his girlfriend's parents who totally unfairly just didn't like him, and even thought he was never convicted !!!11!! he is on a sexual offenders site and his life is totally1!!11! ruined!!

Me: Expressed doubt of the veracity of the details, especially him not being convicted. Pointed out that people are more likely to lie about their car being stolen than about being raped, but no one calls people liars when they discuss car theft.

Me: (Wanted to say) Rape ruins lives too, asshole. I bet your friend was as much of a douchebag as you are, and I have no doubt he was guilty. And most likely convicted. What's his name? Let's look him up on the website and see what the details are.

Then, in the perimeter of the room, one of the other residents (a male, natch) decides to teach the wimminz about self defense from those scary rapists who jump out from the bushes. Then he says: You all don't know the BEST self defense trick from being raped. Do you know what it is? Do you? Stick your finger down your throat and throw up! (Smug laughter) Har de har. Yeah, just throw up all over yourself! It's the best self defense trick against rape ever!!

Um, really asshole?


I have heard way too many stories of intoxicated women whose post-barf status did not deter rapists. I am afraid many of them didn't have stories with as happy an ending as mine.

I am still perturbed by the conversation. Rrrrrrrgh.

I really don't know what to say, other than this is disgusting, and I hate the fact there are people in positions of authority who we're supposed to trust that are like this. I really sympathize with you, having to have this asshole as a supervisor.

Thanks. It made me so ill to think these people will be physicians for sexual assault survivors. I think they even have to do at least a month in the ER each. I have no idea if they process sexual assault victims at our particular ER, but I wouldn't be surprised if we do. I am going to look into it. Sigh.

Ugh, I am so sorry. I once had a chance to join some (female) friends in a college cafeteria who were chatting with a (male) detective who had transferred to the uni PD from the city PD. He mentioned the "1 in 4" in thing, and we all looked at each other - of the 5 of us sitting at that table, only one girl *hadn't* been assaulted. None of us had ever reported it to the police or a health care provider at that point. I hope as time goes on, we'll have more doctors like you and fewer like him.

@Isabel Knight, I am so sorry about you and your friends' experiences with sexual assault.

One good thing about the conversation is that I got some back up from one of the other female students. She discussed how people are loathe to report sexual assault, and she argued a little bit with Dr. Douche about the whole false reporting / just a case of regret issue.

I think in a lot of ways doctors are still part of a good ol' boys club, which is unfortunate. My sister originally wanted to be a doctor, but she would have been the only woman in her class, so she shied away and stuck with her RN degree.

Thank goodness we have women like MomTFH willing to stick it out and help break the mold. Maybe in a few years that sort of talk will be gone from medicine for good.

Awww, thanks.

Although actually, I do have one question. Why did you think Douchebag Doctor's friend was "most likely convicted"? Is it because he's now listed as a sex offender? Because other than that fact I have no doubt that his friend (likely from a rich family) got a slap on the wrist, if that.

Ugh, this is the worst. I have a family member who teaches medical students about sociology - basically, "teaching doctors how to view patients as people". I'm going to bring this up with her and ask her whether there's anything in the curriculum that might cover things like these, because I know one major aim of the course she teaches is to break down myths about patients with chronic illnesses, issues with access to care, HIV/AIDs, etc.

One thing she's told me is that a lot of doctors and medical students really come into their course with an attitude of, "If I'm smart enough to get in here, then I'm smart enough to know everything except what I'll explicitly need just to identify and treat disease, so there's no need to teach me anything else." Some of them lose the 'tude, some never really do - they've spent so long being, in their own perception, the smartest person they know, and at a certain point that makes it really difficult for them to ever admit to ignorance.

@Karalyn, yes, it's not that I think it is so easy to convict someone, I was just under the impression you aren't put on those lists without a conviction. And, considering how hard it is to get a conviction, I was thinking this dude is most likely very guilty. It may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I did a brief intertubes search, and most lists say someone has to have a conviction.

@ Graphite, please, whatever you can do, and whatever your family member can do, more power to them. Unfortunately, many med students and docs do have insufferably superior close minded attitudes. But, who knows? If she reaches just a few students, that can make a huge potential difference in real people's lives.

Case in fucking point. I can't go into too much detail, but I am absolutely livid today. I don't want to violate HIPAA or anything, but one of the parties involved in the previous hypothetical discussion showed an abysmal amount of victim blaming and denial today in a real life patient situation. Not only did she completely blow off the possibility that someone was sexually assaulted when heavily intoxicated, but proceeded to tell me off for "jumping to conclusions" about it, and told me not to follow that line of questioning with a patient because I was "jumping to conclusions" and I "wasn't there, so I didn't know if she actually consented and got drunk after". Luckily, the person who admitted the patient has more sensitivity and knowledge of sexual assault than that, and the attending physician followed that line of questioning.

Yeah, right. Suffice to say, I got in a major argument with said future doctor. Have to work side by side with her for the rest of the month. Color me humorless feminazi X 2.