Fugitivus Discussion Forum

Urgh, Mom, that's terrible. I'm so sorry.

So how did the conversation with C go, Nalina? I have my fingers crossed that he had clueful moment!

I like Isabel's way of going about it. It's less confrontational than my way, which is pointing out that as a dude, he doesn't really know what it's like to be consistently harassed and have your boundaries pushed under the guise of "just flirting". That's a feminist line of thought, and from my experience, it's a lot easier to engage people on what THEY will see as a personal level rather than a political one, because they still don't see how something that's just politics to them is the lived experience of the person they're talking to (you). I admire your strength and patience with a friend I would probably have snapped at by now.

Mom: Whoa, that is hugely inappropriate and awful and terrible. I am so sorry. D:

^ Very true, Isabel did a wonderful job. I pretty much told him how I felt about being flirted with. That no, it's not bad all by itself, but if a woman feels it's wrong, she has the right to act on it. The right to say no, the right to say "That makes me uncomfortable,". As for his response, I'm still in waiting. He is currently underway and I'm not sure when he'll be able to respond. I find myself so LUCKY that we're even talking about this, and yet cautious. I'm happy that I'm being listened to, and sometimes that makes me very emotional. So it takes me a few days to realize what my subconscious was telling me: "Hey, I know you're happy and all, but really look at what he said..." I was even extremely nervous about posting it, and as I listened to that anxiety, I realized it was because this needed to be talked about. I was scared because I'm not used to this privilege. And I'm scared that this might be another person I need to avoid. But I'm so proud of myself for being strong.

Well, I'm glad you were able to bring it up, both to the people you interact with in your everyday life (where it sounds like you've given several guys a lot to think about, and let a group of women know that it's OK to speak up about this kind of weird inappropriate stuff) and here, where it's sparked some interesting conversation. And if anything I said turns out to be helpful, then I'm really glad :3 And you should definitely be proud of yourself - confronting people about this stuff is hard, and even harder when they're your friends, but you don't know if anyone you know is on board with this sort of thing.

^ Exactly. In fact, just last night I had a pretty good debate with my husband and roommate. It went pretty well and I was able to get their perspective on the whole thing, without feeling like I had to defend myself. Which is awesome. It seems like most of the conversations I'm having are positive.

...although it occurs to me that Joanna still seems to be in the subservient position in that comic, and the gentleman in the hat is doing this because he "likes nerdy girls".

:/

Well, I just read a really good, long post about this at Shakesville. There is a definite possibility you are right. But, I am being a little optimistic that "liking nerdy girls" means actually being nice to them and not othering them, as Liss described as here. You never know. A girl can dream. ETA: And yeah, having some dude come in and save the day, with his female assistant, is problematic in itself.

The interwebs are rich with humor about this now, because of elevatorgate. (It's mentioned in Liss's post, and in the next link I am putting up, if you need background.)

I thought this was a great article on the subject. I also think the song at the end is very funny, having been that girl. Well, maybe not so hot but definitely pulling the indie thing off - I love that word! Old school! But yes, the guys singing are definitely playing the objectifying / predatory role in the song. But, satirically and pathetically.