Fugitivus Discussion Forum

I think that it is precisely because we can expect those here to have a decent understanding of social justice that harshness is usually unnecessary, for those on the receiving end in this particular space. (especially considering this thread.) However, I am absolutely not saying that harsh wording is cause to dismiss a person's argument, and anger seems to me like a pretty adaptive response to oppression.

In direct reference to the exchange (apparently) at hand, which I didn't have in mind in my first post, I had a bit of a knee-jerk AAA CONFLICT reaction. But that very possibly had some sexism and my thin privilege entwined with it. Having considered it in context, I think it was an eminently fair response.

I definitely see where you two are coming from with your point about the potential for making more people decide to just stay quiet (as in the "shutting up" thread Smoovie referenced) - especially in light of how often I see a new name in the "newest member" stat in the index page that I've never seen a post from. I still think the reaction on the fatphobia thread was both warranted and appropriate for the specific situation, and I think most of the angry/nukey type things I've seen on this board have been in the 101 forum (not that they're common even there) in response to multiple levels of fail in responses by the OP to answers given to them by other members.

Bleah, hadn't really thought about that angle of it before Smoovie and Tevarre posted.

Uh, is there a reason the participants in the conversation are dancing around the name of the person being discussed? MomTFH, I have a lot of respect for you as a moderator and I think it was a happy "accident" that made you one.

However, I find it sort of inappropriate to have the "what just happened was fucked up, how shall we as a forum deal with similar issues in the future" discussion:

a) while people are unwilling even to name the participants, link to the thread, or use direct quotes from the discussion; and
b) in an entirely unrelated thread where members of the forum could only contribute to the discussion if they happened upon it by accident, rather than the same thread where the original conflict happened or in a new, clearly-labeled thread, or--if participation has to be restricted--in private.

I feel pretty strongly about avoiding this method of handling conflict, where a small group chats in a semi-public place and acts like the person being discussed can't see (or in some cases online like Tumblr or IRC, read it later). That's bullying, and if it can happen to one forum member it can happen to any.

MomTFH, thank you for saying "feel free to let me know." I do request that this conversation be split from this topic and labeled clearly--and by that I mean something that makes it clear you're looking for forum input.

Yikes. Quixotess, I hadn't even thought of the ways the discussion could be bullying. While I obviously am not trying to speak for anyone else, it didn't even occur to me link back to the previous thread - I had blithely assumed that all the members read every new post on the forum, so everyone reading this thread would already be up on the background. In retrospect, that was a really bad assumption to make.

Similarly, by not referring directly to the specific posts by Felstaff (since I figured everyone reading this thread would have also read them) I thought that I was conveying that my comments about argument styles and what I looked for with mods went beyond this specific case and on to the general, while still acknowledging the incident that sparked it as my jumping off point. Clearly I failed at that, and I apologize to anyone I may have made feel uncomfortable or unsafe.

Also, while I did find several of Felstaff's behaviors problematic (covered in the Mom's responses to the infamous
fatphobia thread), I am operating on the assumption that Felstaff is an ally rather than a cookie monster, and that that poster will probably be back after mulling over the (sometimes nukey) responses. Reading back over my own posts, I realize that I didn't make that clear, and I'm sorry for that as well.

Thanks for participating, Quixotess. I tried to be specific about my complaints on the fatphobia thread, and tried to make the communications styles thread become what it obviously was - a critique of my response to Felstaff's concern trolling.

I am not sure what to do from here. While I understand that nukey responses can be silencing, tone arguments can also be silencing and concern trolling with major condescension can be silencing. I am OK with being under the microscope, but I am not sure how much more this needs to be parsed. Felstaff could have taken his questions about fatphobia to 101. He could have been a helluva lot less condescending in his comment, too. I could have been more appeasing in my reply. As a fat person who has been affected by fatphobia, food policing, and concerns for my "health", I don't really come to this site to appease people who are going to lecture me about that, especially on a thread about fatphobia. As a medical student and an intelligent person, I don't take kindly to being lectured to about health, especially by someone who is wrong about major details (like diabetes being a sugar metabolism disorder, not a fat metabolism disorder).

I am a mod though, and I should be held to higher standards.

I am still open to any input.

Honestly I didn't see the direction the thread was going in as pertaining directly to that thread. It's possible I'm being oblivious here, but I thought you were taking things a little more personally than they were intended. It's still a fruitful discussion, just...either not general enough, or not in the correct venue for specifics.

I do just want to emphasise - that really isn't what the thread was meant to be about. I thought it was a legitimate point of discussion in and of itself, and just happened to find the article at a time when the issue of activist communication was on my mind because of the thread. I really wasn't trying to start a thread just to covertly criticise a specific thread response (that's something I did in the thread, and I did greatly appreciate and learn from your reply), and I am sorry if I allowed it to come across that way.

Thanks for the split, Tevarre.

Thanks, Isabel. I have had some very bad experiences with the way these types of back room discussions evolve, so...yeah, unsafe is probably the right word. Thanks again.

MomTFH, I kinda think you responded to Felstaff very appropriately and did not do anything wrong.

By "what do we do now" I don't mean let's ask what MomTFH could have done differently. (And I don't think anyone has approached the thread that way except MomTFH.) It seemed to me that there was a conversation taking place about what the forum consensus is when the type of discussion that just happened on the fatphobia thread happens again.

I'll climb out of the microscope myself, then. Carry on!

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